Again, and again, and again! The same sadistic logic that puts the victim in the same place of the aggressor!

First of all, Mike, I don’t think I’m a sadist. I don’t even believe in killing insects. I figure that if they’re around, there must be a good reason. And I certainly wouldn’t want to be stepped on by some giant foot if I were in their place.

But look at what you’re saying. Anyone can use his brand of logic to make the victim the aggressor, and vice versa. You simply focus on the facts you want, and go from there. That’s why there are two sides in a courtroom. You hire your hired gun, and I’ll hire mine, and guess what, they can both make a pretty convincing case. That’s why I don’t believe that a solution will come by playing the blame game. In the final analysis, no one wins.

…and for once wake up and look at how angry the WHOLE world is…

With all due respect to the world, I don’t think that Jews, in particular, can afford to take the world’s sense of anger and outrage as determinative of what they should do to protect themselves. There was a time, not too long ago, when the whole world was angry, and the Jews paid much of the price. The world can be a callous and indifferent place. People suffer all around the world, and for the most part, the world could care less. That’s why I don’t put much stake in the inherent goodness of man. There is such a thing, but it often lies dormant when it is needed most. What I believe in is to put the pieces together in such a way, and to sell it using just the right approach, so that people will do the right thing, not because they love one another, God forbid, but because they need one another to stave off common existential threats.

…your sick and twisted logic that makes you believe you’re on top of the world and above every human law or logic will end soon… We are certain of that.

I don’t think that Israel believes she is “on top of the world.” But she is part of the world, and intends to stay that way, no matter what. If you’re implying that freedom for Palestinians will mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state, I would argue exactly the opposite. I would argue that for Palestinians to enjoy the blessings of peace, prosperity, and freedom, they will need Israel, as a Jewish state, to help them stave off some existential threats, such as the threat posed by a militant Hamas. Extremism does not threaten Israel alone. It threatens the very viability of the entire Middle East, as many moderates in the Arab world are coming to appreciate.

So Mike, instead of disposing Nissim’s arguments as “sadistic logic”, why don’t you actually try debunking his claims if you’re such an expert on intl. affairs? Oh wait you can’t because you’re just an angry computer chair liberal bandwagon activist who believes everything big media tells you to.

(Sorry for the ad hominems, just trying to be annoying)

-Hamid

I’m so glad you brought up the subject of South Africa, whose people now call themselves “the Rainbow Nation”.

Let’s hope that will happen in the Middle East too. Sure, in S.A. there’s a lot of bad stuff left over from apartheid days but the amazing thing in this country is: underneath all the politics is a vast, praying rainbow crowd that know that, despite their different cultures, they are united in their love of God. While the politicians and the prominent public figures prattle and rave, while the criminal elements try and enforce an unseen sense of dread, this vast, invisible crowd lives and worships and share together, unseen by the popular media. They are held together by a common bond: supernatural love.

An idealistic dream? No, it’s the reality at ground level.

No sir! It is not a point of view to think that pirating ships in the middle of international water to inspect whether they have weapons, going to a place you allegedly withdrew from after years of illegal occupation, or not! For sane people, and for once wake up and look at how angry the WHOLE world is, it is called aggression, it is called an act of criminals, piracy, brutality and idiocy to name a few!

But you know what, in the glimpse of all that, occupation is ending, freedom for those long-suffering people will come soon, and your sick and twisted logic that makes you believe you’re on top of the world and above every human law or logic will end soon… We are certain of that.

Nissim… probably you see the end of occupation coming closer every year, the day for our freedom is coming with every rising sun…

Actually, I do see the end of the occupation coming close. My guess, probably within two years, pretty much along the lines envisioned by Prime MInister Fayaad. This will happen because it is in Israel’s and the West Bank of Palestine’s interest to make it happen.

What is more difficult, is to make sure that the new Palestinian state will embody the aspirations of the majority of the people. You may hate Israel’s guts, but Hamas is not friend of yours either. If Hamas gets its way, the plight of Palestine will be far worse than what it is under Israeli occupation. The irony is that you may end up needing Israel to keep that from happening.

In terms of Helen Thomas, I believe she said something to the effect that the Jews should return back to where they came from, like Poland and Germany. Well, thank you Helen for reminding us where we came from, and what we went through when we were there. The Holocaust, Sami, is a very good reminder of why Israel is needed, as a homeland for the Jews, and why the Jews in Israel, and around the world for that matter, will hold on to her with their teeth, if they have to. For us, the choice is simple. It’s Israel, or the gas chambers.

…aggression and brutal force can never make your “peace” Nissim,

Yes, I know this, Sami, and that is why I believe in finding a solution based on mutual self-interes
and giving substance to that opportunity by Selling a Vision of Hope.

In terms of your assessment of Israel as a non-nation, I beg to differ. I visit Israel regularly, and as you know, my family has been there some 200 years, and every time I go there, I am inspired not only by her many achievements, but by the way that the spirit of freedom seems to fill the air. And that spirit flows to Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike. Given all her faults, and there are many, I still don’t see anything else in the MIddle East that inspires a sense of hope for the future like Israel. As I said before, Israel is the solution, not the problem, in the Middle East. And with the prospects of your upcoming freedom looming large, you may soon come to appreciate what it will take to usher in an age of peace, prosperity, and freedom. It will not be easy, and you may well end up needing as many friends as you can get, including, God forbid, Israel.

Let me ask you this: What is better, being right, or making peace?

It’s not a trivial question. It’s a question that goes to the heart of what’s wrong in the Middle East.

Being right feels pretty good. But does it get us anywhere? The trouble is, if you ask me, that everyone thinks he’s right. For example, you say that Israel has no right to control other people’s lives, or to occuply their lands. And guess what, you’re probably right. But Israel would say that other people are trying to control her, by attacking her repeatedly, since she came into being. And in terms of occupying lands, Israel would probably say that they left Gaza several years ago, and they were still attacked with thousands of missiles and mortars. And she would probably be right as well. No?

So there you have it, Mike, everyone is right, and nothing gets solved.

In terms of the blockade, it’s not very pretty, I know. You’re right about that. But then again, it is a blockade that inspects ships for weapons, and then allows the food and humanitarian supplies to go through to Gaza. And after all, there were several ships in recent years that were full of weapons. So maybe Israel is right in attempting to block the flow of weapons. Maybe she is right too.

You see, everyone is right, and we can all content ourselves with the self-righteousness that comes from being right.

You say that the nine activists were murdered. And you certainly are entitled to your opinion. Israel would say that they were killed in self-defense when the Israeli soldiers were attacked by a mob wielding weapons.

Once again, everyone is right, and the peace process remains paralyzed.

Let me suggest this, Mike, for your kind consideration. How about forgetting, for the moment, who is right, and who is not. How about cutting a deal that brings a good measure of justice and security and prosperity to each side. Neither side will get what it wants entirely. But each side will get enough to make the deal worthwhile. What do you think about that?

For whoever’s sake, just try for once to get out of your historical denial and look outside your bubbles; stop CSI-ing your victims, stop microprocessing the events looking for that little idiotic excuse to relieve your conscious, what you’re doing as a nation is liking sniffing a huge line of cocaine all together!

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONTROL PEOPLE’S LIVES IN THE FIRST PLACE! you have no right to block people’s lives to start with! you have no right to occupy other’s lands and then CSI their motives and intentions! Were they Muslims, Christians, Buddhists or what ever stone-worshiping people they were, they were going to a piece of land that is occupied, blocked, starved to death by another force, they got attacked in international water, murdered when tried to push away a brutal force of pirates! THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED, PERIOD.

Stop this, just stop your crap! It is so disgusting!