The Hypocrisy of Defending Turkey
The hypocrisy of the world never ceases to amaze me! In the world of politics, it’s all but expected that a nation should pursue its own interests at the cost of others, but when average and so called “informed” citizens behave in that manner, there seems to be little hope for a different and better future. For how hypocritical is it that a “Muslim” world (and I use that term loosely since nothing about the actions of these people or nations is in and of itself Islamic), would denounce the slaughter of innocent Palestinians but remain silent and many times even supportive of the slaughter of their neighbors in Kurdistan, the vast majority of which are Muslims (not that religious affiliation should be grounds for denouncing or not denouncing the killing of citizens, but if that’s the rallying cry of these supposedly Muslim countries, than they have greatly erred in allowing the injustices perpetrated against their neighbors to continue for over 70 years at the hands of the current Turkish regime.)
I suppose I could go into details about the Armenian genocide…or about Ataturk’s anti-Islamic and anti-democratic policies after the creation of the Turkish state when he banned Muslim and Turkish cultural dress and even changed the Turkish alphabet from Arabic script to Latin script in a pathetic attempt to assimilate with the Western world. He banned the notion of separate identities existing within Turkey and thus Kurds were all but a “myth” made up to incite separatism from a Turkish state that had been oh so very kind to them.
Tell me then why my language is still banned from Turkish federal buildings? Tell me why my sister whose name is Kurdistan, was banned from entering Turkey when she was 12 years old because her name was apparently a threat to the sovereignty of the Turkish state? Tell me why Leyla Zana, a Kurdish woman elected to Parliament in the late 1980s was jailed for 15 years because she dared to speak Kurdish after taking the oath of office when she said that she hoped to promote comradery between her Kurdish and Turkish brethren? Tell me why Nawroz was banned until 2000? Tell me why entire villages have been destroyed in Southeastern Turkey in the name of construction projects and dams that are built conveniently in the some of the poorest Kurdish villages-thus forcing the Kurds to migrate to the cities where they can assimilate faster by not being allowed to speak Kurdish, name their kids Kurdish names, or even teach their kids in Kurdish schools. Tell me why we as a people supposedly didn’t even exist as a legitimate minority-the largest minority in the world without a country that’s three times as large as the Palestinian population and hail from the Medes and the honorable line of Ibn Taymiyyah and Salah al Din?
Tell me, oh righteous Turkey, was it that much easier to call us Mountain Turks instead, to prevent the allocation of funds to our villages to force us to move? Was it easier to place the infamous gendarme’ (gendarmes) at the entrances of our villages in the name of providing security knowing full well that our men were being slaughtered by them and our women were being raped? Was it easier to deny our existence while simultaneously trying to wipe us out? Did it feel good when you gave poisoned bread to the Kurdish refugees fleeing from Saddam and seeking refuge on your borders? Did you enjoy swapping Kurds to the Iraqi Baathist army for money when you’d find Kurds trying to escape death on your borders? Perhaps there’s a reason why you sound so much like the murderers who supported Nazi Germany and turned in Jews to the authorities for a small sum of money. Perhaps that’s why Mein Kampf has become an international best seller in your lands since 2005. See here.
Let me guess. The reader just isn’t buying it. How could a country that so vehemently defended the Palestinians now condemn its own Muslim population and murder them as casually as the Israeli military has been known to indiscriminately attack Palestinian civilians?
Well you sure don’t have to take my word for it. The entire article by UNCHR can be found here with regards to the poisoned bread and the selling of escaping Kurdish refugees back to Iraqi authorities.
For a more historical approach of its human rights abuses, see here.
Why is it that your constitution states over 30 times that any belief that the Turkish state should be separated into other states, such as a belief in an independent Kurdistan, will lead to the stripping of all human rights for that citizen? Why does the Turkish Constitution provide that no protection is given to “thoughts or opinions contrary to Turkish National interests, the principle of the existence of Turkey as an indivisible entity with its State and territory, Turkish historical and moral values, or the nationalism, principles, reforms and modernism of Ataturk.” Furthermore, Article 28 of the Constitution establishes that the press is not free to publish news articles that “threaten the internal or external security of the state.”
Even in the US we have due process of law, and no matter how criminal one’s actions are they are always guaranteed rights under the law and are innocent until proven guilty. Perhaps it’s a testimony to the weak nature of your very state? You’re not even sure if you’re part of the East or West—one day you’d like to be part of the EU and are passing anti democratic laws to ban minority political parties, the headscarf, and even the letters “Q” and “W” (because you know that only Kurds use those letters, and using particular letters are likely to lead to “separatist” tendencies), and the next you’re calling Israel a butcher and vehemently defending the rights of Palestinians as though you haven’t been aware of their struggle for the past 60 years? Why is Palestinian blood more valuable than Kurdish blood?
I suppose I should be asking the entire Middle East that question, and not just Turkey but hey—if twenty something Arab countries didn’t do a thing for their own brothers in Palestine and it took the lone Turkish country in the supposed Middle East to bring attention to the matter—then what possible hope could the Kurds have? No one seems to be caring about the 400,000+ citizens killed in Darfur… so why us?
People are right to say that western blood is not more valuable than Palestinian blood, even though Western actions seem to point to the contrary. But I’d take that one step further and say that no human being’s blood is more valuable than another human being’s blood. In the words of MLK, an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere, and as Edmund Burke himself once said, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” But how good can you be when you’re condemning one criminal act and not another?
I can understand if it’s the hypocritical state of Turkey that’s making these ridiculous claims about justice and human rights, but when citizens—especially Middle Eastern citizens—get all riled up about how heroic Turkey is and don’t even bother to recognize the suffering of their Kurdish brothers and sisters right next door…what does that say about the state of humanity? Has our humanity become so debased that we condemn certain acts of cruelty and oppression and not others? Is it not our duty as human beings to, at the very least, pay lip service to an injustice when we see it occur by condemning it with our tongues and hating it in our hearts even if we cannot physically change it with our hands, as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself once said? If he were alive…if so many other great leaders were alive like Francis of Assisi or even Saladin, I don’t think they’d stand for it one moment longer. I think they’d speak out against all injustices everywhere all the time until change finally arrived for those people.
How many genocides-yes genocides, for the US Congress and UN formally recognized at least one atrocity that occurred against the Kurds as a genocide when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against men, women and children in Halabja in 1988-must occur against the Kurds before their rights are finally recognized? In Iraqi Kurdistan, my people are finally thriving and the economy and infrastructure seem light years ahead of the rest of Iraq. In that region, my people are finally able to be free…I only pray that the world opens its eyes to the atrocities that are still going on against my people in Turkey and aren’t stupid enough to fall for Turkey’s latest political ploy, because ultimately it is just that: a ploy. It is not the first country to use the Palestinian struggle as a soapbox to stand on to make declarations about the righteous nature of its state, nor will it be the last. I simply pray that the Palestinian people, and my people, are able to realize their dreams of an independent state so that both sides can finally have the peace they’ve so desperately longed for.

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thats the hypocrcy of turkish regime against kurdish inocent people .
I am Kurdish and I don’t agree with you. It’s just like the whole world speaks Kurdish and you are defending it. You have the right to speak or learn or teach in Turkey at the moment.
what a name to name after a girl. If a girl was being named after Israel or Iran I am sure you would come up and say these are racist hypocrites.
I am Kurdish and I do not agree with you, do not say Kurds because when you use that word you include me in your ideology and that’s not true.
What’s going to happen if you have your own country? The sheiks and tribe leaders will suck the blod out of you and than I wonder how you will cry for help. At least in Turkey you can vote freely and that’s only if a a Kurdish tribe leader do Permit you to vote whoever you want. I don’t want to serve nor stay under these hypocrite tribebal leaders.
Regards
Great article, Behar gyan. I’ll be posting this everywhere.
Murat, you said you were “Turkish” with “Kurdish” origins. You only claim to be Kurdish in this thread in an attempt to discredit Behar’s remarks, which she has backed with legitimate sources. There is no denying Turkey’s crimes. Your strategy isn’t working.
The Isreali conflict is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, there are numerous ongoing atrocities that are far greater both in scale and severity, and in which the victems play far less of a role in perpatuating the situation.
Ironically the outpouring of sympathy for the palestinians is probably partially responsible for the situation they are in. If it wasn’t for the groundswell of support, in the arab world especially, for regimes that are seen to stick up for the palestinians, then it would be useless to regimes such as Irans and there would be no incentive for them to perpetuate it. As it stands the conflict makes for great pr for such regimes, which base much of their propaganda on it, and as such, it makes sense for them to veto any peaceful resolution to the conflict by supporting equipping the rejectionist palestinian faction that necesarily emerges with the means to scuttle the agreement.
The israelis are right to observe that there is power in the palestionian territories both willing to entertain the notion of peace and equipped to enforce one, and that is at least in part due to the incentives foreign powers hafe in torpedoing any peaceful end to the conflict. It is also of course due to the radicalisation of the armed protion of the palestinian population, without which foreign powers would not be able to undermine the would be palestinian party to a peace agreement.
For what it’s worth, I find the various kurdish battles for soveregnity to be far more clear cut ethically than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and support you wholeheartedly.
I’m having a go at blockquotes again, bear with me.
This is an important point, and much of my disdain for the PKK can be traced to my conviction that their reign, should it ever come, would be a totalitarian one. A people is no more sovereign, and no freer, under tyrants that share their language than they are under foreign rule.
Murat, you seem a bit incomprehensible to me, and I suggest that you either back up your remarks with a solid argument (preferrably in correct English, or speak in Kurdish-if you do in fact still remember how to speak the language.)
My sister has the most beautiful name in the world, and I suggest you swallow your tongue before you utter another evil word against her. If you cannot construct a good argument, don’t attack an innoncent teenager for your ignorance about the situation. I personally see you as a traitor to your people. You mentioned the name of Israel and Iran-I actually have one Kurdish friend named Iran and another named Felesteen (Palestine). I dont think there’s anything wrong with naming your child after your country if you love it that much, whether it’s Iran, Israel, or America. Virginia is actually a common name here in the states- are you going to mock the names of everyone who’s been named after a country, or just attack those named Kurdistan? And why is it that so many Kurds in Turkey have resorted to singing songs about Gulistan (Land of flowers) since your country-and I say YOUR country, bc Turkey will never be a home to the Kurds so long as Northern Kurdistan is part of that sad excuse of a “free” nation-no longer allows the word “Kurdistan”, which simply means “land of the Kurds” to be used. Theoretically, by not allowd the word Kurdistan to even been used, the Kurds dont even have the right to claim that they have a land thats theirs in Turkey. I’m sorry that you and your family decided to assimilate completely and betray your people, but i’m really sick and tired of Turks claiming, ‘oh well my great great great GREAT grandfather was a Kurd, and therefore I know how Kurds think and you all are stupid” or “my mom or dad is half Kurdish but I’m all Turkish and you all are stupid”-these are pathetic and weak remarks. I am speaking on behald of millions of Kurds in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria who have all suffered at the hands of brutal dictators and in many cases we have their dead bodies to prove it. I dont speak on your behalf or on behalf of theTurks who continue to deny that anything’s wrong and that genocides and human rights abuses have simply never occured. Did i misquote your constitution? Does that sound very democratic to you? Because if I did, feel FREE to correct me, and you are most welcome to help me out with my Turkish, as my Arabic, Kurdish, Farsi and English are alas much better. I provided my sources, now you provide yours. Prove that Ataturk didnt do what I say he did. Prove that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Kurds have not been massacred in Turkey since the inception of this brutal state.
I am Kurdish. I am 100% Kurdish. I have family from Turkey and they have no reason to lie about their own eyewitness accounts of what happened. I have been to southeastern Turkey and have seen the devastation and poverty that characterizes every inch of that region. I’ve also been to Iraqi Kurdistan, and freedom could not taste sweeter.
And what bloody sheikhs and mullahs are you talking about? Iraqi Kurdistan is a secular nation filled with Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Yezidis! We have everything from our own brand of beer to brand new lounges, churches, and mosques. If pro american sentiment is to be found anywhere in the middle east, it’s in the mosques of Iraqi Kurdistan where Americans are treated as heros for liberating us from thr tyranny of Saddam. Unlike Iraqi Kurdistan, Turkey can’t claim that its first form of government was a democracy, and we have yet to experience a military coupe when our military is unhappy with us. Our peshmerga are actually loyal to our leaders, which is why security in our region has been so well maintained. You guys have had…2 military coupes in 30 years? Or perhaps I counted wrong…
Anywho, like the Arabs say “hatu burhanakum”-bring your proofs- if I’m wrong. Otherwise, qazarqurt u pe’ meren. If you’re Kurdish like you say you are, then you most certainly won’t need that translated
Tor: not all Kurds, in fact i would venture to say that MOST Kurds do not support the PKK or the attacking and killing of civilians. I understand where they are coming from, as oppression usually breeds extremism, but I condemn the targetting of civlians in every way, shape and form. My own people have been targetted multiple times, and the majority of the victims have been women and children. I would be a hypocrite not to condemn it now. In fact, in President Barzani’s recent trip to Turkey, he condemned the PKK’s decision to begin using violence again. People need to STOP associating ALL Kurds with the PKK. There are 30 million Kurds and less than 10,000 PKK members. How do you guys think the KRG was created in iraqi Kurdistan? We just elected PKK supporters into power??? It was a free and democratic process that put many of our officials into power.
Calling all Kurds PKK supporters is like calling all Muslims terrorists. It couldnt be further from the truth.
Dear esra’a yes I am Turkish national with a Kurdish origin what does it makes me an American?
I am Kurdish and Turkish an American when I think of Kennedy, I am an Israeli when I think of mordechai vanunu, I think I am more humanist than you.
I just don’t agree with you when you generalize or stereotype an ethnicity or a country in a whole.
Think about it!!!
I have seen your article with a video of separating Kurds from Turkey. In that video I had the expression that all the Turks are butchers and they kill all the Kurds. it is not your job to decide for me or anybody who thinks like me. Do I come up and say the inhabitants of a city in your country should separate and they are under optession and so on??? Shine you are married and fight with your husbent. Do I have the right to tell you have to divorce or I have the right to tell yo. Find a solution for your problems whis is best for the two of you…
I am Kurdish or Turkish it doesn’t concern you. Mind your own business and stop vaccining hate and nationalist hypocricy into peoples heads.
I know what you people are trying to do under the umbrella of human rights…
Regards
Behar, Kurdistan does not exist , even if it existed I would not live there with narrow minded people like you.
Khodeh bi tabe razibah bra me,
Behar esra and all others, I think I am wasting my time here so, this will be the last comment from me.
My point overall was that, no matter what you say or do, how ever you bargue. In my mind our brotherhood stands firm and I will not vaccine hatret into the heads of other people.
May peace and love find you therefore you stop hating.
True “brotherhood” means embracing the diversity amongst you. Turkey, evidently, does not.
I do agree with its unfair that someone can’t choose any name they want in Turkey but asking for full independence from Turkey is clearly not plausible. No country in surrounding area Iran, Syria, and Turkey will recognize the Kurdistan that you claim is yours. Iraq Kurdistan I believe one day will be the Kurdistan some day because of the support of Turkey. Now thinking that way I ask you one question other than not being allowed to name your child anything you want what do you think Turkey should do to help the rights of the Kurdish minority in Turkey? How should Turkey develop southeastern Turkey? How do we decrease unemployment in the southeast of Turkey? How do we help children get a better education in southeast of Turkey? Turkish Kurds who answer these questions truly love their people but people who call for independence and refuse to answer these questions and resort to violence are traitors to their people who suffer everyday because of selected few who just don’t don’t care about anything else but separatist goals. These selected few forget that Turgut Özal, İsmet İnönü, and Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu are famous politicians who are of kurdish decent. Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu mother and father are both Turkish Kurds so because he is leader of Ataturk’s party to you he must be a traitor? But what if he help people get jobs in the southeast of Turkey? Does that matter to you? What if he allows people to choose any name they want in Turkey? Does that matter to you? Or are you going to continue to call for independence and look away from other problems like poverty and hunger in the southeast? Do you care that TRT made a Kurdish channel? Do you care that Kurdish is now taught in universities in Turkey?
You’re asking the wrong questions.
You associated people who want a free and independent Kurdistan with people who want to resort to violence. the PKK dont even want independent anymore, the want full citizenship rights. There are millions of Kurds who want a free Kurdistan through peaceful and democratic means-just look at Iraqi Kurdistan. No one wants any more blood to be shed. And the article wasnt event about an independent Kurdistan as much as it was about the human rights of people. You want to know how the problem can be solved? democracy. If you keep oppressing people, theyll keep fighting back. If the Kurds in Turkey want a free Kurdistan, thats their right. But if they want to be part of Turkey, thats their choice too. You want to help southeastern turkey? Then get the government to start putting money back into those villages. rebuild the schools. build cities there. build universities there. create jobs. THAT will give people hope that the govt does care about them. Stop outlawing any Kurdish political party and calling them PKK supporters bc its not true. If Kurds keep believing that the govt is against them they’ll feel hated and unwelcome in their own land. its all about treating people with respect and honor.
I believe that the time for armed struggle in Turkey is over, but i believe that the largest minority in the world, 30 million people-3 times as large as the palestinians-deserve a country of their own. Whether that will happen or not, time will tell, but its already starting to happen in Iraqi Kurdistan. This is about whats right. The Kurds were promised a land of their own under the Treaty of Sevres after WWI and were betrayed by the British, Turks, Iranians, and Arabs yet again. Just because artificial borders were drawn, that doesnt mean that the people who’d lived there for centuries suddenly disappeared.
Bottom line: Whether or not you support an independent Kurdistan, you have to agree that oppression, murder, and human rights violations are wrong and that the Turkish government has not only been responsible for the deaths of thousands of Kurdish civilians, but it has yet to be held accountable for them.
Almost forgot!
Farewell Murat! May we never hear your hateful, racist, and many times incomprehensible remarks again! One of my greatest aspirations now is for you to have the displeasure of seeing a free and independent Kurdistan
xer bechi hey turke’ xesheem u cheh nazani
Hey kare be kurtani
Ana kurdi min Kurdistani
Ana asel ariani
u qa’edona Barzani
Lets address the oppression, murder, and human rights violations. Currently their is constitutional reform package that would block parties being banned by the constitutional court, instead a vote will be carried out by the parliament and this vote will need more than a majority to be banned. There is also a law addresses the jailing of children who have thrown rocks at the police. The reform has also called for the formation of an independent commission who will over see human right violations in Turkey. You have stated: “rebuild the schools. build cities there. build universities there. create jobs.” Rebuild what schools? Build what cities? Build universities where? Do you know how many schools and universities are in the southeast of Turkey? How does Turkey set up a system in which human right violations can be addressed? Answering these questions will help solve the oppression, murder, and human rights violations. But just saying Turkish Kurds are oppressed, murdered and have faced human rights violations and in order to stop these things from happening northern iraq, part of syria, southeastern Turkey and a part of Iran needs to become Kurdistan so that it will never happen again is clearly a weak argument. Why? Because this argument will not solve the issues that Turkish Kurdish face instead you should answer the question what kind of reform is needed to stop human right violations in Turkey. Turkish Kurds are the only ones in Turkey that are oppressed even the Turkish people who are not of kurdish descent are oppressed, murdered and jailed without questioned. I ask you this question are Kurdish parties the only parties banned in Turkey? Of course not there are many other parties that were banned that weren’t a Kurdish party in Turkey. So knowing this we know that Turkey needs reform. Of course now we see the ruling party making good and bad reforms. These bad reforms will destroy checks and balances in the Turkish government and give more power to executive branch. So as you can see Turkey has a long way to go but people who protest for specific reforms in Turkey will have more of an impact then people who ask for a vote to be held whether or not a region of Turkey should become another country. Why? Because you know as well I know that will bring you no where instead you write the specific reform in which will help decrease human rights violations in Turkey.
I am not turkish neither kurdish, but i think these “kurds” are fakes, turks saying they are kurdish… anyway
when i lived in Scotland(i am brazilian) i have met a kurdish from turkey, and he described to me the brutalitty of turkish govt.
since then i have been studying this regime, and i have seen many terrible actions from turkish regime…to be honest i dont see diference between Israel and Turkey…
Emre, again you have misunderstood what I thought was a pretty clear statement. You said:
“But just saying Turkish Kurds are oppressed, murdered and have faced human rights violations and in order to stop these things from happening northern iraq, part of syria, southeastern Turkey and a part of Iran needs to become Kurdistan so that it will never happen again is clearly a weak argument.”
I said my DREAM was for there to be a united Kurdistan, but nowhere did i say that the solution to the problems of Turkish Kurds was to unite with Iraqi Kurdistan or any other part of Kurdistan. Kurdsin each region have their own sets of issues tha they themselves are dealing with. As a Kurd, my support lies with all of them. My solution was democratic reform in the countries that Kurds currently reside in. Whether or not that leads to an independent Kurdistan has yet to be seen, but in the mean time greater progress can be made through peaceful means, as we have seen.
Moreover, you claimed that there are plenty of people and parties discriminated against in Turkey. My argument was that Kurds are targetted under different pretenses and the Turkish govt uses the same argument that Israelis do when indiscriminately targetting civilians, “well you see..they’re terrorists…and that village was harboring terrorists so we destroyed it…and that political party liked Kurds too much so they must be PKK supporters and therefore terrorists as well.” Obviously other groups have suffered, but the Kurds are by far the LARGEST group of people in Turkey that have been systematically targetted.
Leonardo, you’re clearly ignorant about the history of Kurds and i find it comical that you met a Kurd from Turkey who described to you the brutality of the Turkish police, and you’re sitting there declaring that all Kurds are fake Turks-that comment in and of itself would make the Turkish govt incredibly happy, as they’d tried for decades to convince the world and even Kurds that they were nothing but Turks. They learned the hard way that the Kurdish problem wasnt going to go away by eradicating all traces of the Kurds through ethnocides and genocides. You can’t make 10 million people disappear.
I’d like to encourage all respondent to back up their claims with valid sources instead of making false claims. For example, a history of Kurdish origins can be found at the following link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kurdistan.htm
One of the main parts of that article that you, Leonardo, should pay attention to is the part where it says: “Kurds are distinct from the Arabs, Turks, and Persians (Iranians) of their region, but are ethnically and linguistically closest to Persians. Kurdish origins are commonly traced back to the Empire of the Medes in the sixth century BCE.”
I am however very interested in reading anything you could provide that states that Kurds are really Turks, but I know for a fact that you won’t find a single legitimate source that backs your ignorant and racist claims.
lol Behar
its not easy to deal with Turkish mentality , most of them cant understand any thing , I have few Turkish friends and they are really nice because they are liberal and they are thinking but when I am dealing with others its look like talking with a stone when it comes to Kurdish struggle , few years ago when they start to hear the word Kurdistan they more like been shocked by electricity but because We had business together they couldn’t be against me for so long , its big paradox defending on Gaza and killing your own citizens , WTF , if any of you had tour in Amed or Wan or any Kurdish city occupied by Turkey you will understand how fanciest is the government , Poor roads , poor services etc .. any way Turks have to understand its not going to last for them , They have to change their mentality and try to be more civilized , You have build a good country but still you need to share it with your partners in their and stop considering Kurd , Armenian , Arabs and Others as they came from Mars . Turks are not the best nation in the world as they are dreaming in fact no one is , you have to deal with this reality and have your own identity , the real one not the fake , Ataturk is not the God
Women and homosexuals are they not oppressed in Turkey as well? And yet again you say that Kurds are oppressed and you give no solution to the problem. You call for a democratic solution be more specific? If your point is that “that Kurds are targetted under different pretenses and the Turkish govt uses the same argument that Israelis do when indiscriminately targetting civilians.” So when Hamas shoots a rocket into Israel and pkk uses mines or car bombs to kill people they are innocent civilians? No of course not terrorists are terrorists. Abdullah Öcalan will never be freed he will die in prison. In fact I believe his punishment should be to watch all the videos of people who he has murdered or helped murdered. People who wave flags of Öcalan are praising a murderer and this deeply upsets people in Turkey. Imagine I wave flags of Osama Bin Laden and I say he is my leader in the USA don’t you think this will disturb people? Do those kinds of demonstrations help my people get more rights? Of course not it makes it hard for people to sympathize with you. If you are saying the Palestinian problem is the same as the Kurdish Issue then you are clear mistaken. First gaza and the west bank are known as the Palestinian occupied territories internationally and southeast Turkey is known as southeast Turkey internationally. Kurds in Turkey are free to receive any kind of humanitarian supplies but Palestinians are not.
Good job, this is amazing
Great post Behar.
Every proper Kurd knows the reality of the turkish state. their ethnic racism is so deep that there is not a single turkish political party or organization that sincerely cares for giving equal rights to Kurds, as well as Armenians, Greeks and Christians.
turkey is truly a fascist state. The Erdogan government has not changed anything. All they have done is introduce some simple cosmetic reforms but have monopolized the expression of anything Kurdish in their own hands, AKP state turkish control of Kurdish culture. Effectively what they are trying to do is make a traitor out of every Kurd after failing to assimilate us all.
Murat (if he really is Kurdish, which i doubt judging by his bad Kurdish writing) is a victim and tool of the turkish traitor policy. He is here repeating the same nonsense that we hear from the turks every day. It is all orchestrated and repetitive.
And he is writing about tribal aghas and sheikhs. What the idiot fails to realise is that it’s the turkish state that funds and arms aghas and tribal sheikhs to kill true Kurds. The true Kurds that are fighting for Kurdish identity in turkey are all intellectuals, non-tribal and in many cases secularists.
So you see turkish traitor policy of funding uneducated tribes to kill their fellow Kurds affects us in two ways. 1) the turks make traitors of Kurdish tribes. 2) idiots like Murat become traitors because of the traitors created by turkey. And the real Kurds are fighting the policy as well as both these types of traitors.
Murat go and become a turk, you are now an enemy of real Kurds.
Behar, with regards to your sister’s name. Why would they allow her entry? My mother simply had Kurdistan written on her European passport as “place of birth” and she was denied entry, so im not surprised your sister is denied because her name is Kurdistan.
Emre, you obviously have problems with selective reading. Sheesh.
“Women and homosexuals are they not oppressed in Turkey as well? ”
I didnt say that. I clearly stated: “you claimed that there are plenty of people and parties discriminated against in Turkey. My argument was that Kurds are targetted under different pretenses and the Turkish govt uses the same argument that Israelis do when indiscriminately targetting civilians”
“And yet again you say that Kurds are oppressed and you give no solution to the problem.” I think the solution was implied. Democratic reform begins by reforming the law of the land: the constitution. Change the articles that talk about stripping away human rights, change the article that states that no protection is given to “thoughts or opinions contrary to Turkish National interests, the principle of the existence of Turkey as an indivisible entity with its State and territory, Turkish historical and moral values, or the nationalism, principles, reforms and modernism of Ataturk.” Change the articles that dont allow freedom of the press….change the laws that are not democratic. Sounds simple to me.
Give minorities the same status as regular citizens, instead of favoring who identifies themselves as a Turk or something else.
Distribute funding back into the villages that are the most underfunded. That means rebuilding school, allowing people to teach and speak in their native tongues, building universities or improving the ones that are already there, better hospitals and medical care, etc. etc. etc. If you’d like specifics as to how bad the situation really is in southeast turkey, check out the following articles:
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer247/day.html
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=3&id=11177
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49558
“So when Hamas shoots a rocket into Israel and pkk uses mines or car bombs to kill people they are innocent civilians”<—what the heck are you talking about? who endorsed hamas or the Pkk?? but are you that foolish as to think that the only people the turkish govt has targetted is the PKK and not thousands of civilians? what the Turkish govt loves to say is that since its founding, 30,000 civilians have been killed as a result of PKK activity. what they wont tell you is that the majority of them are civilians, mostly women and children, because the PKK itself is less than 10,000 strong and the deaths are the result of turkish military incursions into kurdish villages. they believe in a policy of collective punishment. Like Israel.
I condemn terrorist acts wherever they occur. But one must also remember that oppression breeds extremism and that Turkish oppression was prevalent in the region long before the inception of the PKK. So please dont be so ridiculous as to assume that all Kurds support the PKK and that all those killed by the Turkish govt are either PKK members or their supporters. Amnesty International would beg to differ with you on that one.
The Palestinian and Kurdish occupations are the SAME bc Kurds were there BEFORE the creation of the Turkish state, guaranteed a country under the Treaty of Sevres, and then betrayed by the british for Turkish appeasement. Just because borders are drawn that doesnt mean its residents cease to exist. I'd like to know, however, why Ottoman maps dating from the 17th century and Arab maps dating back to the 10th century label Kurdistan on their maps if Kurdistan never existed. Perhaps that's a zionist ploy, no?
And why is it that all Kurds fall into once category for you: those who wave ocalan flags and support the PKK? There are 30 million Kurds out there, 10 million of which reside in Turkey. Even more than that however, for those waving the ocalan flags, would you prefer that they waved the flag of ataturk?
I have yet to see provide any sources to back up your claims.
Beautifully written, Behar.
So you have stated there is need of reform of Article 42 of the Constitution and article 301 of the Turkish penal code. Now we getting somewhere. Is there any other type of reforms that would help fight human right violations in Turkey? I have never said that you support Hamas or PKK. All I have said is that people who protest with Öcalan flags are not helping the Kurdish Issue in Turkey. I have no doubt that the conflict in the southeast has killed many innocent civilians. You claim that the Kurdistan you speak of was established by Treaty of Sevres. First the Turkish people never recognized the Treaty of Sevres. Second if Treaty of Sevres was did happen then all the Kurds in the Southeast would be kicked off that land because France promised that the southeast of Turkey would belong to the Armenians not the Kurdish people in the treaty. Using your logic that Kurds are the same as Palestinians because they are historically linked with the land well in 190 BCE or in 1199 AD it was the Armenians who ruled the southeast of Turkey not the Kurds. So using your logic would mean that all Kurds would have to leave the southeast of Turkey and be replaced with Armenians. And you might argue that Palestinians did not live in Israel during the Biblical times of the Kingdom of Israel but this wrong. Why? Because Palestinians are a semitic people that means that they could have been jewish before they were muslim. Jew and Arabs are semitic peoples. Your logic is clearly flawed. So let’s kick out the 13 million people in Istanbul and give Istanbul back to the Greek. Your logic just doesn’t work.
Good Lord, we’re talking about 70 years ago, not thousands of years! And the Kurds never WENT anywhere. Whats all this nonsense about kicking people out of one place and putting them in another? You know, I thought you were speaking sensibly for a second when you mentioned reforming the constitution and then you went off on a complete tangent again!
Second, Kurds dont have a problem with Armenians. We get along quite well. And actually, according to this encyclopedia, Turkey was to grant autonomy to Kurdistan and Armenia became a republic with international guarantees. see: http://www.questia.com/library/encyclopedia/sevres_treaty_of.jsp
Finally, it is not the Kurdistan I speak of, it’s the Kurdistan the rest of the world-even Turkey-has spoken of. it was written on foreign maps, and Iraqi Kurdistan is now referred to as just that-Iraqi Kurdistan. No one calls it northern Iraq anymore, not even the UN which recognizes its status as a defacto state, or Turkey-which recently received the President of Kurdistan and has long had economic and political ties with the Kurdish Regional Government.
*sigh* And here I thought we could be friends…but it just doesn’t seem like we’ll be agreeing any time soon.
You state that “Turkey was to grant autonomy to Kurdistan and Armenia became a republic with international guarantees. see: http://www.questia.com/library/encyclopedia/sevres_treaty_of.jsp” but this site clearly states that “The treaty was accepted by the government of Sultan Muhammad VI at Constantinople but was rejected by the rival nationalist government of Kemal Atatürk at Ankara.” Who established the Turkish was it not Mustafa Kemal? So the Turkish Republic never recognized the treaty of sevres. I also want to applaud the Iraqi Kurdistan leader Massoud Barzani for understanding the concerns of Turkish people in relation to pkk and by supporting the Kurdish Issue in Turkey. You have failed to answer my questions again and again. You have repetitively stated generalizations without any solutions. I have asked you to be more specific but you have ignored me. So I’ll ask the question again but I don’t think you will answer is there any other type of reforms that would help fight human right violations in Turkey?
*bangs head on keyboard*
“what other type of reforms”??
Must i resort to copy-pasting in order to point out the multitude of reforms i’ve mentioned in order of importance? If you’d like to “think” that i didnt answer your questions, I’d rather you continued thinking that rather than having me go back and re-stating everything I’ve written in pervious posts.
Furthermore, I never disagreed that Turkey rejected the treaty, but rather that the allies and vast majority of nations accepted it. Under that treaty Armenia eventually gained its statehood as well, so it didnt seem to matter whether or not it was rejected by Turkey. Moreover, the issue of the existence of Kurdistan on dozens of maps dating back hundreds and even thousands of years was never addressed. The existence of Kurdistan is not likely to be a productive debate between us, as I believe Kurdistan exists based solely on what I’ve seen on the ground. Whether or not you believe its borders extend to southeast Turkey may be an issue of contention for you, but no one can deny that those cities have at the very least been historically Kurdish for centuries. Furthermore, borders are drawn and redrawn every day, and even Kosovo, while not recognized by every single nation world wide, is still an independent and sovereign nation today. Just bc you don’t see it on a map today, that doesn’t seal the fate of a nation’s borders tomorrow.
You seem to be under the impression that I believe othervise, I do not.
no, im in full agreement with you Tor. I just wanted to make it clear to everyone else bashing Kurds on here, and took the opportuniy to address it while replying to u. I’m pretty much in agreement with everything u said
all respect and love to my Kurdish brothers and Sisters either in Iraq , Turkey , Syria , Iran ..etc . actually I don’t like the Kurdish Politicians – I don’t like Arab Politicians either – they r thugs .. Journalists r sent to Prison in Iraqi Kurdistan !! . so the point here is not politicians … or states – states r shit though – . I can’t get it why mentinoning Kurdish rights or Kurdistan pisses off some Turks and Arabs ? .. These r normal ppl just like u , me & everybody else … Do they really think oppressing some ppl can bring Peace ??? Only Justice brings peace .. do they even think that the Kurds hold up guns and fought Just because of their insanity ?? I mean ppl come on that sounds like Israeli Propaganda .. to sum it up Justice anywhere is injustice every where … either in Palestine , Kurdistan , Turkey , Egypt … etc .. I don’t care how the stupid Politicians will solve it they r too busy protecting their throwns …. Standing up for Kurdish rights doesn’t mean being anti -Turks .. pretty much like Standing up for the Palestinians & Arabs doesn’t mean being anti-Jews … I have a dream that this region middle east will come to peace … with ppl recognizing one another … I have a dream of opened borders – actually no borders- …. am I dreaming for too much ?!! Arabs , Kurds , Turks & Persians r brothers .. We r from the same region .. we belong 2 the same culture … Oppressing one another or a group of us is a SHAME
all love,
Arab Frustrated girl
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